Curse

Crom The Pale · May 15, 2008, 09:51 PM // 21:51

I do belive that [splinter weapon] was nerfed due to PvE farming builds, not anything PvP related so I would be very surprised to see it reverted.

Rangers should get some reversions to skills that were weakened, power shot, Sundering Shot, ect...
Not to mention pets really should leave corpses...that nerf never made any sense at all!

Lastly the class that might need the biggest buff is Elementals, they just don't pack much damage outside of SF. Most all other builds drain energy or leave them with total exhastion so fast they become useless after a casting 3-4 spells.

DarkNecrid · May 15, 2008, 09:54 PM // 21:54

Quote:

I do belive that was nerfed due to PvE farming builds, not anything PvP related so I would be very surprised to see it reverted.

Blew stuff at VoD faster than a hooker with 20 years of experience under her belt.

Phoenix Tears · May 15, 2008, 10:06 PM // 22:06

I hope Anet will use this also to buff significantly alot of the Skills for Pve, so that they become more powerful and stylish together with soem awesome Skill Synergies they will enable us players then, which will be usable for PvE only, because for Pvp they would be way to overpowered so.

Because i see only a change in UB, when Anet first drastically buffs alot of other Skills for PvE Version to give us plenty new Skill Synergies, whihc should be interesting and powerful enough, to be together better than UB and together with their Synergy alot more interestign to play, than the button smashing of UB.

However, about the Skilsl of this game i absolutely expect nothign anymore of Anet, I've seen so many times, how anet failed at balancing the skills and whenever they tried to balance somethign, they created only new Skill Synergies, which could and were used then for new Builds which were in some certain ways for pvp to overpowered and I don't believe, that with this change of anets balancing now about different skill effect for both modes will be used for much skills. OS I doubt on if, that it will get used to make alot of complety underpowered and uninterstign skills more powerful and so more interestign for builds in PvE to give us players a good alternative over UB, even when i must admit, that I like UB and use it so often as I can, because this skill reduces lots of GW's grind and makes it more endurable.

I personally hope more, that this Split balancing will also fidn from the start on its way into Guild Wars 2, so that GW2 with its new stated Skill System will have for pve really powerful stylish Skills full of action rich gameplay, that you as player feel yourself alot more like playing a real time action-rpg and not like a little child playing with toy soldiers, like GW's battle system looks alike

DarkGanni · May 15, 2008, 10:17 PM // 22:17

Not sure if someone mentioned it yet but I would like to see the armor cap removed from PvE, if i'm not mistake the reason why it exists is because of the terras in PvP.

As for Skill I'd like to see Watch Yourself back to the old way, LoD reverted back to 5sec recharge and decent heal. Can't think of anything else.

Oh and a nerf to ursan for the sake of build creativity again.

- Ganni

The Meth · May 15, 2008, 10:21 PM // 22:21

Splinter Weapon is still overpowered. Seriously, stop complaining that your damage is capped at 420 bonus damage at 8 spec and 705 bonus damage at 14 spec. Thats still more then any other spell in the game, and you are only capped in a very limited amount of instances.

Ritualists need some of the _OTHER_ channeling skills buffed so the line isn't 5% game-breakingly powerful and the other 95% dogshit. Same for communing and spawning, except that they are 100% useless atm.

Agreed on watch yourself revert, tactics is hugely underpowered right now.
Agreed on removing armor stacking cap for PvE, its one of those things that just seems irrational and that a new player would never be able to figure out without reading the update the day it was done. If I remember correctly it was imposed because of Stand Your Ground + Watch Yourself giving all of your casters 100 base armor, not because of lame terra tanks that nobody cared about in RA

Nightow · May 15, 2008, 10:31 PM // 22:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

Splinter Weapon is still overpowered. Seriously, stop complaining that your damage is capped at 420 bonus damage at 8 spec and 705 bonus damage at 14 spec. Thats still more then any other spell in the game, and you are only capped in a very limited amount of instances.

Ritualists need some of the _OTHER_ channeling skills buffed so the line isn't 5% game-breakingly powerful and the other 95% dogshit. Same for communing and spawning, except that they are 100% useless atm.

Agreed.

[Caretaker's Charge] Increase energy gained.
[Destructive Was Glaive] Increase duration, match recharge accordingly.
[Channeled Strike]+[Gaze from Beyond]+[Spirit Boon Strike] Decrease casting time.
[Lamentation] Give it conditional recharge like [Signet of Sorrow]
[Weapon of Aggression] Lower energy cost.
[Warmonger's Weapon] Decrease recharge time slightly.

Alex the Great · May 15, 2008, 10:32 PM // 22:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightow

Nerf Healing Prayers or just simply [Healer's Boon].
Nerf Fire magic, used wayyy too often in PvE for it's AoE spells.

things don't get nefed do do over-use, things get nerfed when they are an over-powered problem. And WTF? nerf healing?

if anything, they need to revert [mind blast] and [rodgorts invocation] because fire now sucks compared to how it used to be, and everyone is stuck playing with [assassin's promise]

Nightow · May 15, 2008, 10:38 PM // 22:38

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex the Great

things don't get nefed do do over-use, things get nerfed when they are an over-powered problem. And WTF? nerf healing?

Protection prayers from my understanding promotes active defense which is praised by most folk. All healing does is the following:

Red bars go down.
Red bars go up.
Red bars go down.
Red bars go up.

/yawn boring!

Also, anything overused or overdone can easily become boring. Who in the world wants that!?

One more thing, a nerf to [Healers Boon] would affect Ursan parties, right?

The Meth · May 15, 2008, 10:56 PM // 22:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightow

Protection prayers from my understanding promotes active defense which is praised by most folk. All healing does is the following:

Red bars go down.
Red bars go up.
Red bars go down.
Red bars go up.

/yawn boring!

Also, anything overused or overdone can easily become boring. Who in the world wants that!?

There are two kinds of protection: active and passive
Active protection is the kind of protection that takes skill and shows off good monking ability. It is using single-target protections in anticipation of enemy damage to greatly lower damage taken.
Passive protection is party wide defenses that are just kept up 24/7. No real skill involved.

Right now 99% of PvE protection is passive protection. The reason being that it is impossible for a monk to protect against Every Single Monster because they are all doing 100+ damage auto attacks and 200+ damage spells. As long as they keep doing this active protection is barely a footnote compared to passive protection. Reducing healing isn't going to affect that much.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightow

One more thing, a nerf to [Healers Boon] would affect Ursan parties, right?

Want to know the real secret to nerfing ursan parties? Nerfing Ursan.

Agreed on your rit buffs btw.

Nightow · May 15, 2008, 11:28 PM // 23:28

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alex the Great

everyone is stuck playing with [assassin's promise]

In PvE, monsters die alot, yes?

Then [air of superiority] FTW!

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Meth

There are two kinds of protection: active and passive
Active protection is the kind of protection that takes skill and shows off good monking ability. It is using single-target protections in anticipation of enemy damage to greatly lower damage taken.
Passive protection is party wide defenses that are just kept up 24/7. No real skill involved.

Right now 99% of PvE protection is passive protection. The reason being that it is impossible for a monk to protect against Every Single Monster because they are all doing 100+ damage auto attacks and 200+ damage spells. As long as they keep doing this active protection is barely a footnote compared to passive protection. Reducing healing isn't going to affect that much.

Ok, thank you for sharing your insight on protection prayers.

Quote:

Want to know the real secret to nerfing ursan parties? Nerfing Ursan.

True but this would be a step in the right direction, yes?

Quote:

Agreed on your rit buffs btw.

Thank you.

DarkNecrid · May 16, 2008, 02:45 AM // 02:45

Told you guys it wasn't going live today...jeez....

Nightow · May 16, 2008, 03:22 AM // 03:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Told you guys it wasn't going live today...jeez....

ROFLOL!

121212

darkknightkain · May 16, 2008, 04:34 AM // 04:34

What I'd like to see is to have all the pvp-oriented nerfs/buffs reverted, so all skills can go back to function the way they were intented to function in the game.

As long as the normal skills are back to normal then don't need to worry about those "powered-by-grind" pve skills (whose sole purpose was to make up the skills that got messed around too much by pvp) anymore.

Chthon · May 16, 2008, 04:39 AM // 04:39

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

I do belive that [splinter weapon] was nerfed due to PvE farming builds, not anything PvP related so I would be very surprised to see it reverted.

Nope. It was nerfed because it absolutely mauled NPCs in GvG. Or as DarkNecrid so colorfully puts it:

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarkNecrid

Blew stuff at VoD faster than a hooker with 20 years of experience under her belt.

In fact, this is one skill that I am 100% certain will get split, because PvEers are asking for a revert to a more powerful form, while PvPers are asking for another nerf (because it's still very effective against those poor GvG NPCs).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nightow

One more thing, a nerf to [Healers Boon] would affect Ursan parties, right?

STOP. RIGHT. THERE.
This is important, so please pay attention: That is precisely that kind of thinking that made GW balance the mess it is now. Indirect nerfs are BAD. If there's a problem with something being too strong, you have to directly address the problem by nerfing the skill/mechanic at the heart of the problem. Nerfing the "on-the-side" skills that help with an imbalanced build rarely succeeds in killing the problem build (SR timer nerf didn't fix spirit spam; orders nerf didn't fix IWAY; etc.), and it almost always causes collateral damage that ruins builds that were never imbalanced (PvE builds historically). If Ursan needs nerfing, there is one and only one right way to do it: nerf Ursan Blessing directly.

Nightow · May 16, 2008, 04:50 AM // 04:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

STOP. RIGHT. THERE.
Yadda, yadda, yadda....

Yeesh. OK, OK!!

lol, I'll just admit that I had an ulterior motive. Namely, to make restoration look better.

Heh, someone tell Chthon to switch to decaf please.

Also, ...

BlackSephir · May 16, 2008, 08:32 AM // 08:32

They can revert pve Fox's Promise. Blew stuff in pvp but it was so fun running around, swinging your unblockable scythe in pve ;d

Crom The Pale · May 16, 2008, 11:30 AM // 11:30

Just how far do we really want this to go?

Should we revert [Sand Shards] so sins have another insane damage skill?

These reversions need to be very carefully looked at or all we will be doing is creating several profession specific UB builds. ie one build for each class that so totaly owns all other builds that its the only one players will use.

Despite what most PvP players think PvE does need balance, just a different type of balance. We need each class to have internal balance so that multiple builds can all work equally effectively. ie Water Elemental = Fire elemental = Earth elemental = Air elemental, not necasarily equal in damage but in the ability to use each of those elements without gimping your effectiveness to the party.

Frank Dudenstein · May 16, 2008, 12:46 PM // 12:46

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crom The Pale

Despite what most PvP players think PvE does need balance, just a different type of balance. We need each class to have internal balance so that multiple builds can all work equally effectively. ie Water Elemental = Fire elemental = Earth elemental = Air elemental, not necasarily equal in damage but in the ability to use each of those elements without gimping your effectiveness to the party.

PvE DOES need balance ... unfortunately 80% (or more) of the community DOES NOT WANT IT. Want proof?

1. Go to any of the 1000 threads about nerfing Ursan. For every single thoughtful post about maintaining PvE balance and challenge, there are numerous posts of "Don't touch teh bear!" or "I want things to be fast and easy" or even worse "You don't understand Ursan DOES take skill to play"

2. Go to any post-update thread involving a nerf that was CLEARLY overpowered in PvE (soul reaping, 10 minions, splinter weapon, the list is endless). Even if done for PvP reasons .. those nerfs were entirely appropriate for PvE, yet the community backlash was like a tsunami of crying. Anet really can't ignore that.

Conclusion: Despite the vocal minorty that wants PvE balance, there is an even MORE vocal majority that wants Hard Mode to be Easy Mode and Normal mode to be Godmode. Anet's hands are tied ... they have to give the majority what it wants or risk losing them in GW2.

Nightmares Hammer · May 16, 2008, 12:55 PM // 12:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frank Dudenstein

PvE DOES need balance ... unfortunately 80% (or more) of the community DOES NOT WANT IT. Want proof?

1. Go to any of the 1000 threads about nerfing Ursan. For every single thoughtful post about maintaining PvE balance and challenge, there are numerous posts of "Don't touch teh bear!" or "I want things to be fast and easy" or even worse "You don't understand Ursan DOES take skill to play"

2. Go to any post-update thread involving a nerf that was CLEARLY overpowered in PvE (soul reaping, 10 minions, splinter weapon, the list is endless). Even if done for PvP reasons .. those nerfs were entirely appropriate for PvE, yet the community backlash was like a tsunami of crying. Anet really can't ignore that.

Conclusion: Despite the vocal minorty that wants PvE balance, there is an even MORE vocal majority that wants Hard Mode to be Easy Mode and Normal mode to be Godmode. Anet's hands are tied ... they have to give the majority what it wants or risk losing them in GW2.

I agree. But look at the bright side, ANet can balance PvP all they want now. Woot...!

Hyper Cutter · May 17, 2008, 03:40 AM // 03:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chthon

Nope. It was nerfed because it absolutely mauled NPCs in GvG.

Or to put it a little more bluntly, it was nerfed because that was easier than making NPC AI not suck...